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Wedding Business Solutions Podcast with Alan Berg CSP - Bonus Episode with Katelin BroganShould You Be Using Facebook and Instagram ads for your business with Katelin Brogan – special dialogue episode

I’ve sold wedding advertising, published two wedding magazines and I was VP of Sales at The Knot. Those are things I know a lot about. But when it comes to Facebook and Instagram ads, my knowledge isn’t that deep. So, when I need help, or one of my client’s needs help, I refer them to my expert, Katelin Brogan. I asked Katelin to join me for this episode to help you better understand how these ads work and so you can decide if they should be a part of your marketing mix. In this 19-minute episode we talk about how they work, budgets and more.

About Katelin Brogan

Katelin is a specialist in all things Facebook and Instagram for wedding professionals.  She is here to help you attract your dream couples and book more weddings through education and done for you services.  That way, you can grow your business, bring in more income, and create the life that you desire.

Contact Katelin:

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Below is a full transcript. If you have any questions about anything in this, or any of my podcasts, or have a suggestion for a topic or guest, please reach out directly to me at Alan@WeddingBusinessSolutions.com or contact me via textuse the short form on this page, or call 732.422.6362

Please be sure to subscribe to this podcast and leave a review (thanks, it really does make a difference). If you want to get notifications of new episodes and upcoming workshops and webinars, you can sign up at www.ConnectWithAlanBerg.com


– Should you be using Facebook ads and Instagram ads as part of your marketing mix? I invited my friend and expert Katelin Brogan to talk more about this so you can decide what’s right for you and your business.

– Welcome to another bonus dialogue episode of the “Wedding Business Solutions Podcast” I’m Alan Berg with a good friend of mine here today, Katelin Brogan. Katelin, how are you doing?

– I’m doing awesome. Thank you so much for having me, Alan. I’m excited to talk about Facebook and Instagram ads with you today.

– And Katelin is coming to us today not from her home, but from a friend’s home in Hawaii. So, I’m big time jealous because I haven’t been out there in a couple of years. And the reason I invited Katelin on today is because I am teaching Katelin about Bourbon and Katelin is teaching me about Facebook ads and Instagram ads. So, that’s our deal. Our deal is that we’re teaching each other. And what I wanted to talk about today is: people don’t understand really a lot about Facebook ads or Instagram ads. And when might you want to try it? When might you want to add it into the mix? So, this is not a tutorial, so to speak, because that’s what you do, Katelin. You have a great Facebook group . You have private training. You have your classes and stuff. But I just wanted to do an overview for people to think, might they want to consider it? Or why might they want to consider it? And then what are some of the things they need to know? So, when might somebody want to add Facebook ads in the wedding industry into their mix?

– Yes. So, the main reason for Facebook and Instagram ads is really to help you book more weddings. So, Facebook and Instagram ads, they can help you reach people who have never heard of your business. And so if you’re looking to A) help you bounce back from this past year, you’re a little bit low on your bookings right now and you want to reach some new people, it’s a great way to get the word out and get the awareness out about your business. Or B) if you’re looking to scale, where you are where you want to be but you have bigger goals, so you’re looking to go from 100 weddings a year to 200 weddings a year or maybe 300 or 400. So, ads can be a great way to also help you scale in that sense too.

– So, what would be the difference? Because I recommend to my customers that you want to be everywhere where your potential clients are. So, obviously places like WeddingWire and The Knot And most people listening know my background. I used to publish wedding magazines. I was Vice President of Sales at The Knot And the job of those sites is to get an audience. And they get an audience that is theoretically almost all people who are getting engaged or are engaged and getting married, I should say. With Facebook, we know that there’s a lot of people on Facebook that are not engaged. But the cool thing about it, which is kind of creepy and cool is we’ve given up our total privacy. So, Facebook knows an awful lot about us. So, how is it that Facebook lets people really target down to those engaged couples?

– Yes. Good question. So, one thing I want to add really quickly is Facebook actually owns Instagram too. And so a Facebook ad is also an Instagram ad by default. So, how do you then go about targeting people on Facebook and Instagram? Well, with that, it comes down to a couple of different things. So, one is the obvious, Hey, if you have the relationship status of ‘engaged’, people are able to then target you based on that. One way to think about it is you have WeddingWire & The Knot you have Pinterest, you have SEO and all of those people are on Facebook and Instagram. People might not be using WeddingWire or The Knot or they might not be using Pinterest, but almost all of those people are all on Facebook and Instagram. So, we target by that ‘engaged’ actual relationship status. But then you can also target by people who have shown interest in things like WeddingWire and The Knot or Pinterest. So, then we’re also pulling people in from those sources as well.

– All right. Hang on a second. The ‘engaged’ status, that’s easy because we tell them we’re single, we’re married, we’re in a relationship, we’re engaged, whatever it is, we’re divorced, whatever those statuses are. So, we told them that. We know where they are, right? So, geographically you can target? That’s great. But these interests, so I talk to people about, you want to look at the demographics, geographics and psychographics when you’re trying to target people. So, geographics, where they are, demographics, “I’m engaged. I’m this old.” You can target by age also?

– You can. Yes. But you want to be careful because you want to target more on the psychographics like you’re saying. So, we’re going after more of that personality versus someone who’s 28 to 30 years old.

– So, psychographically, you can target people who like certain things, like what are some of your clients, what are you helping people target when they’re trying to find engaged couples?

– Yes. So, there’s two ways to look at this. So, one, if you’re a smaller business so you’re going after a specific type of person. So, for an example, I work with a wedding venue in Colorado. So, for her, she could only book 50 weddings a year and she’s this outdoor garden wedding venue. And so for her, she was looking for a very specific person who loved outdoor and gardens and wanted to have their wedding at an outdoor garden wedding venue. So, for her, not only did we pull in the wedding interests of WeddingWire The Knot Martha Stewart, things like that, but then we also pulled in interest from people who have outdoor interests. So, like hiking, snowboarding, skiing, snowshoeing, things like that. So, then you’re find that personality and that psychographic of that person. But then the other side to that is if you are a bigger business, So, if you’re going after 500 weddings a year, you’re not necessarily going after that specific of an ideal client. And so with that, you wouldn’t add in hiking and snowboarding and skiing unless you know that that definitely plays into your ideal couple.

– So, when you’re targeting people that like hiking and outdoors or mountain biking or whatever, how do you do that? What are you targeting for?

– So, when you say, how do you do that? Do you mean where specifically? Or how would you lay that out in the background?

– So, how is that person identified that they like outdoor stuff that you’re able to say, “I want people like them.”

– Yes. So, Facebook and Instagram, they do know a lot about us based on, so number one, what websites have you been to? Are you visiting REI? Are you going to all that outdoor sea-fishing places, outdoor sea bass or whatever. So, they know when you’re visiting websites that are in that category. But then they also know what pages you like. So, if you’re liking pages that have to do with outdoor mountain biking and maybe the ski like Vail Ski Resort or Keystone Ski Resort, they know that. They also know what you search into your phone. So, if you search for things around that topic, they keep track of that. And they also keep track of things that you like and comment on. And so between all of that, they get a pretty good sense of what your interests are. And then that’s the sort of information that they’re like, “Okay, well, this person clearly has shown “an interest in outdoor skiing and outdoor snowboarding.” And so they peg that interest to you.

– So, the person hasn’t necessarily said, “I like hiking” it’s their activity that Facebook has inferred they must like hiking because they’re looking at hiking sites, they’re looking at hiking trails, hiking maps, all that kind of stuff. So, this is the cool and creepy part of targeting is that. Now, like you said, people who like The Knot people who like WeddingWire or Martha Stewart it’s because they’ve clicked like on that page. Can I target people who have liked any page or does it have to be a certain number of likes on that page or something?

– Yeah. The page has to be a certain size. And I don’t know their size exactly, they don’t really give us that information. But it does have to be a larger size. So, when it comes to local magazines and local workshops and things like that, you can target some of them. I have had some clients who have found bigger magazines in their area that they can target like one was in Miami. But in general, it’s mostly the national brands that are a little bit bigger that you can target.

– Got it. So, if somebody’s got a local microbrew and they’ve liked the page and there were 300 likes there’s not a good chance you can do that. But the fact that that person has liked a whole bunch of different beer things, Facebook might infer, “Hey, these people like beer.”

– Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

– Okay. All right. So, it doesn’t have to be an active action on that person’s part, it could be just by your activity or as we know that Siri and Alexa are always listening, right? You talked about something and then the ads start showing up. You’re like, “I didn’t search anything there.” So, what are a couple of things that people wouldn’t normally think about? Like you think about buying ads, you’re like, “Okay. I go in, I go to this site, “I buy an ad, I pay them that much “and this is what happens there.” This is not a passive thing. You need to be a little more involved. If you’re going to do Facebook and Instagram ads, what are some of the things that people, you work with people all the time that they’re like, “Oh, Oh, I have to do that.” What are some of the things they should think about?

– Yeah, definitely. So, when it comes to running ads, so there’s three things I want to make sure that everyone has before they even consider running ads. So, number one is a website. It sounds silly, but it’s true. People are going to check you out. When you look at the stats behind your ads, people check you out before they reach out to you sometimes. And so you need to look like the reputable business that you are. So, website is super important. You also have to have a Facebook and an Instagram page to run the ads from because you can’t run it from a personal page or anything like that. It has to be a business page.

– All right. So, a business page. Okay. That’s not one where somebody is “friending” you, that’s where somebody is “liking”.

– Yes, exactly. Exactly.

– Okay.

– And then once you have those couple of things so the next part to really look at is, “Okay, I want to be committed.” If you’re going to run ads, it’s not something that you want to say, “Hey, I’m going to put one ad up and just hope it works.” It’s something just like learning SEO, just like working on your WeddingWire or The Knot listings. It takes a little tweaking and trial and error. And so be ready to be committed for at least a month, if not a couple of months. And then from there, the three parts to look at for your ads are number one, your audiences. So, making sure that your ad is reaching the right person, which is what we’ve been talking about here today with that interest targeting, making sure that they’re engaged, things like that. And the second piece is the ad itself. And the ad’s job is only to get people to click to your website or to that next step. But the ad, you want to make sure that you have images that are really good. If you have professional images from photographers, those work the best. But then if you also have someone in-house who can take really good photos of the wedding day or your service, those work great too. And then the messaging, where you’re focusing on what people want with your service and not necessarily about you. So, it’s not talking about your awesome 150 reviews, but it’s talking about how that serves them and how you can bring amazingness to their wedding day.

– And you’ve taught me this. You want it to be one focus on one action that you want them to take. You don’t want to try to say, “Here’s five things you can do”. One thing. Now, you can, somebody told me this the other day, instead of going to the website, you can have it pull up a contact form, right? That was one of the options. So, again, that’s a one action thing, but it still has to be focused on what’s in it for them. People have heard me talk about this all the time. Like you said, it’s not about you. It’s about them. So, images-wise, what have you found tends to work well for images?

– So, the images that work the best are the ones that really showcase number one, people in the images having fun around your service. So, if you’re a caterer, you want to table full of people having fun and laughing, possibly even the bride and groom at the table with your food then in the center of the table. Or say you’re a venue, same sort of thing. It’s not just about having that empty reception hall or that empty ceremony location, but having people in that location having fun, enjoying the day so that the couple can picture your service. And that’s the second piece is having it relate to your service. So, if you’re a DJ, you don’t want to have a picture of them, their first kiss up at the altar. You want it to be people dancing, having fun. And so keeping then that image related to your service specifically.

– Right. So, I call them aspirational images. And actually Facebook in their guidelines for ads says to use people in them because it attracts people much more. So, the images get their attention and then there’s gotta be a messaging. So, how much wording? A lot of wording, a little bit of wording, what’s better?

– Yeah. Ultimately, it is going to come down to testing it because different messaging works differently depending on the call to action that you’re having. So, if you are asking people to go visit a blog on your website, typically a little bit shorter ad copy works better because it’s straight into the point saying, “Hey, do you want five tips on “how to choose your perfect wedding venue?” And then you have a little teaser about the blog and then they’ll click on it. But if it’s an ad that’s actually talking about your service, actually talking about what they get with your wedding venue or what they get with you as a DJ or a caterer, those tend to be a little bit longer. I have found, it ultimately comes up to testing because everyone’s different in different places. So, wedding venues and couples in Miami, Florida are going to be very different than Denver, Colorado, than here in Honolulu, Hawaii. And so you have to test what works best for your area too and what couples really resonate with.

– So, when you’re doing the testing, do you run an ad, then you run a different ad or can you run these concurrently to see which one pulls best?

– Yeah, so what you want to do, so budget wise, you start with $5 a day per ad. And you can either run three ads at the same time which would be $15 a day just to get your test going so that you have the results all at the same day. Or you can do $5 a day for the first ad until you know that it’s reaching people. And then you go to your next ad. And that just takes a little bit longer. but it’s easier if you can do the $15 a day. It goes a little bit quicker.

– And the $5 a day number, where does that come from?

– So, it’s the minimum really. $5 a day. I would not do anything less than $5 a day because Facebook needs to be able to get momentum. And your budget decides how many people see your ad and the more people that see your ad, the quicker the momentum they get with figuring out who is clicking on your ad because that’s the beauty of the algorithm is that it learns with every click, with every action, anything someone does with your ad. So, the more people it can get quicker, the faster it learns. And so $5 a day is really the minimum I would go. And $10 a day is kind of that sweet spot. And then $15 a day, you’re just a rock star and you’re going to go really quickly through all this testing process.

– Does it give you an estimate of how many people might see you at different dollar levels?

– It does, but I wouldn’t pay attention to it too much because by it really varies by location. And it also varies by how many people you have trying to run ads to the same people because basically ads is a bidding strategy. And so you’re competing and right now there’s a lot of people not just in the wedding industry, but people in general who are trying to use Facebook and Instagram to grow their business. And so it could look different depending on if you’re in downtown center city versus rural areas versus a mountain town. So, it won’t be as accurate as you would like it to be.

– Got it. So, again, just like Google ads or anything, you’re bidding. Whoever bids the most is going to get seen the most and that’s what it is. So, again, you have to be active, great images just like with any other advertising or your website. Great website presence so your website will convert all of these things fitting in together. So, I think the bottom line is for a lot of people, this could be part of their strategy. I generally don’t recommend to anybody that they put all their eggs in any one basket, whoever’s basket it is, for me, especially Facebook because it’s their sandbox and their toys so they’re changing the rules on us. As a matter of fact, while we’ve been talking right now, they’ve changed the rules on something. I’m pretty sure. I’m sure they’ve done something there. So, Katelin, thank you so much for taking time away from the Hawaii sunshine and what you’ve been having here instead of the great day I’m having here in New Jersey for sharing ideas. I’m going to put into the show notes more about you. Just real quick, what are some of the things that you help people with? If somebody said, “Hey, you know what? “I like this idea. “I don’t think I can do it myself.” How could you help them?

– Yeah, definitely. So, I have a couple of different ways. So, number one, if you’re just starting to get your toes wet, I have a Facebook group that’s just full of a bunch of free trainings I do. And Alan’s in there talking about podcasts, things like that. And so join the free group if you just want to start getting some information and getting your toes wet. And then from there, I have two avenues. So, if you want help fully managing your ads, we do offer that here. And then there’s also the educational side. So, if you’re someone who likes to learn how to do the ads yourself or you’re just trying to figure it out, it’s definitely a more affordable option than having someone fully manage it for you. And it can help you get that momentum that you’re looking for now.

– Perfect. What’s the name of the Facebook group.

– It’s called “Book Weddings Now”

– “Book Weddings Now” I’m going to put all this into the show notes. Katelin will give me all the links there if you want to reach out to her directly. I actually met Katelin through mutual clients that were using her for “Learn How To Do This Yourself” And yet again, some people are like, “Just teach me, teach me and I can do this.” And other people are like, “I need somebody to do it for me “because I don’t know how, don’t want to know how. “I just want it done.” And there we go. So, thank you again for joining us today on this very special edition of the “Wedding Business Solutions Podcast” It is a dialogue episode. Katelin and I are going to be talking more about how I can use more Facebook and Instagram ads for my business to promote my podcast. We will do that as well. Maybe on another episode, if we can do that. We’re going to let Katelin get back to the sun and fun of Hawaii. And please join us on another episode.

– So, thank you for having me. Take care, everyone. Bye.

I’m Alan Berg. Thanks for listening. If you have any questions about this or if you’d like to suggest other topics for “The Wedding Business Solutions Podcast” please let me know. My email is Alan@WeddingBusinessSolutions.com. Look forward to seeing you on the next episode. Thanks.

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©2021 Wedding Business Solutions LLC & AlanBerg.com

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