Wedding Business Solutions Podcast Bonus Episode with Kaleigh WieseKaleigh Wiese – Branding for Wedding Pros – Bonus Dialogue Episode

One of the most popular episodes of The Wedding Business Solutions Podcast is “The Difference Between Branding and Your Brand.” In that episode I talked about how your brand is what people say about you after they’ve experienced what you do. That doesn’t mean that branding isn’t important, it’s just different than your brand. So, to complete the topic I invited my friend, and fellow WeddingPro Educator, Kaleigh Wiese to come on and discuss branding, which is her expertise.

Kaleigh Wiese is an endless creator, visual branding educator, entrepreneur, and public speaker. She has worked her entire career helping creatives find their visual voice. Her focus remains on branding and providing resources + services to help small businesses share their companies uniqueness visually. She also is a longtime event business owner, founding Méldeen in 2008, a luxury event branding and paper goods company focused on designing unique touch-points throughout event experiences.

Through her work, she has been featured in The Huffington Post, The New York Times, Enterpreneur, Fortune, Martha Stewart Weddings, Grace Ormonde and has shared trends at Wedding Pro Workshops (The Knot & Wedding Wire), Wedding MBA, WIPA, ILEA and other niche creative workshops across the country offering tips for growing your business through visual marketing. In 2021, she continues her primary focus of sharing her message of strategic brand techniques across the country through one-on-one brand audits, online courses, free webinars and her membership community Brand Magic Society.

When she’s not on the go, you can find her at home in Austin, Texas experimenting in the kitchen, with a book in hand or boating with her husband, Michael, and their two rescue pups, Charlie and Jack.

For her free color theory guide, other design-focused resources and upcoming dates you can visit www.KaleighWiese.com

Social Handle: @gokaleigh: www.instagram.com/gokaleigh

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Below is a full transcript. If you have any questions about anything in this, or any of my podcasts, or have a suggestion for a topic or guest, please reach out directly to me at Alan@WeddingBusinessSolutions.com or contact me via textuse the short form on this page, or call 732.422.6362

Please be sure to subscribe to this podcast and leave a review (thanks, it really does make a difference). If you want to get notifications of new episodes and upcoming workshops and webinars, you can sign up at www.ConnectWithAlanBerg.com

– One of my most popular episodes of the podcast is about the difference between branding and your brand. I talked about brand and now we want to talk about branding. So you’re going to want to hear this. Welcome back to another one of my special dialogue episodes. As I said, “Branding versus your Brand” is one of my most popular downloaded episodes. And I spoke about brand and I said, who do I know that speaks about branding? And I don’t know anybody better than Kaleigh Wiese that does this. So Kaleigh, thank you so much for joining me today.

– Hello, hello, I’m so excited to talk about this topic. As you know, I am very passionate about it. And for me, it’s like this is the difference between positioning yourself as a hobbyist or as a professional. And we know that wedding business owners have so much potential when it comes to positioning themselves.

– Right, so what I spoke about in the other episode is that your brand, and you and I, we could talk about this for hours, literally… You and I. That your brand is what people say about you after they do business with you. Your brand is in your reviews, your testimonials, your thank you notes, the things that people post on social, the things they say to you in person. That is your brand. And when somebody says, “What’s your brand?” It’s not your colors and your logo and things like that but that is branding and branding, for those of you watching on YouTube, you see my logo over my shoulder here, that’s on purpose, that is branding. My books here in the background that is branding. But my brand is something different. So branding, every time I’m looking at colors, I just ordered some logo stuff with embroidery, and I’m thinking what would Kaleigh say? What would Kaleigh say?

– Well, I think when people know what their brand is or how they want to be perceived, and we have the ability to control that narrative by the client experience to produce at the end, that review. And so when we can really look at our reviews and see the language that’s being used consistently, we can take that and we can use that to control the visual narrative. So there is psychology in colors and fonts and images. And so when you understand how you want to be perceived and what you want your brand, not branding, to be, then you’re able to choose colors and fonts that actually speak to those words. Which is kind of like a little bit of branding magic, to be honest.

– So a lot of people think, when is it time to update my brand? When’s the time? So it’s almost a little chicken and egg because if you’re a brand new business you don’t have that, you don’t have that history.

– Just get started.

– You don’t have those words. And I think an important lesson which we just kind of skimmed over is it’s okay to update. It’s okay to change things and know you’re not going to break everything that you did before. But it’s more evolutionary than revolutionary. Lo completely change your brand, revolutionary, there has to be pretty good reason why.

– Yeah, absolutely and I am a strong advocate for ‘polishing’ your brand not a complete overhaul because it takes someone five to seven times to have an experience with the look and feel of the brand for it to be a finite memory. So if you’ve been in business five, 10 years and you’ve had a look and a feel and a color palette, if you change that, you are putting a big bump in the road, honestly, in getting that traction that you were having. However, if you are getting inquiries that are just not a good fit and you’re just attracting the right people, then absolutely you should be looking at what could I change to make sure that when someone lands on my website or sees my social or sees my business card, that it resonates with them. But most of the time I find it’s just small changes. It might be a color change. It might be a font change that really just gets you that stair-step movement to where you want to go, to be able to magnetize the right people. But as we talked about with the new business owners you’ve just got to start. You’ve got to get your name out there. You may have purchased something from Fiverr or something like that. Just move forward and figure out what you want your ‘brand’ to be. And then you can craft your branding and the branding, I call it a visual language, to be honest, because it is visual marketing that is going to be with intention. And then it will talk to your ideal audience in a way when you’re not there, it sets the tone to then be able to develop the brand reputation at the end of the experience.

– So something that I’ve spoken about and I know you speak about extensively is the ‘style guide’ and having guide there. And I always, not really jokingly, but I say I can very often tell, as you can tell, when someone has done it themselves. And I always say, listen, you can do it yourself as long as it doesn’t look like you did. Same with the website, same the website. Make your own website. That’s great, if it looks like you made it, if that’s what I’m thinking, I’m not thinking about you and what you want me to think about. So I always say when that font dropdown list that every one of our computers has this extensive list of fonts, it is not a personal challenge, like how many you can use. That’s not a good idea. – Nope! – First explain real quickly what a style guide is. And then we can talk about like how many fonts and colors and stuff like that.

– Yeah, so one of the largest issues I see in our industry is the lack of consistency. And to be honest, there is no excuse for not having consistency. You may want to have a little sparkle and magic about your brand. Doesn’t mean you need to add more, more and more. If you think of big brands that we shop every day or luxury brands like Chanel or Gucci, think of the simplicity that those brands have and that from a psychology perspective, demands a certain level of respect and confidence, to be honest, it is what it is, it’s straightforward. So for me to see a company develop the colors that they’re going to use either two primary up to five primary colors, every time they see that blue, if you think Tiffany blue, it’s going to be exactly the same. And you’re also going to want to have fonts that you use consistently. So you should choose a header, a subheader, a body font and an accent font. So there’s four fonts and you want to use them every single time, on your website, on your business cards. If you’re producing other promo pieces, or your social graphics, you want to use those same things. And what you do, is you then you determine your own, really your own visual language, Every time someone sees it, it’s going to feel familiar to them. It’s going to feel safe. You’re going to almost put roots in deeper into your community by every time they turn their head, it looks consistent. So when you’re producing visual graphics for your Instagram feeds or putting together new pieces I highly suggest keeping it consistent and not overthinking it, not getting stressed out about all the pretties it could be, but it needs to just be consistent. So put together one sheet. Maybe you make it in PowerPoint. Maybe you make it in Word. Maybe you make it in Canva and it should have your colors, the color codes, the four fonts. And then I like to also include the logo. How do you want the logo to be seen every time? And there shouldn’t be 10 variations. There should be one type set, an icon, and then icon in a type-set combo. So that is the three and you’re going to be using them.

– All right, so hang on a second, should the fonts in your logo, if there is type, should those be some of the same four fonts or does that matter?

– So controversial, between graphic designer to graphic designer, what the main importance is that your logo is the pinnacle and the accent of every place you put it. So when you see it, it is noticeable. It is large and in charge, it is going to catch someone’s eye that they know your business name. Because most of the time our brains will remember the colors and the fonts but we won’t even remember the person’s name until we’ve seen it a few times. So make sure that your logo is loud and in charge. Now I do think in some cases, having a header that’s in a similar font style could be impactful, but, you have the option, it’s almost like your undergraduate level of graphic design. If you get fancy, you can actually tell a story with those other fonts. So let’s say that you are an established officiant and you want to be known, I’ve been doing this 20 plus years, but I love my young couples and I want to be relevant. We, you may choose to do a accent color or an accent font and something more contemporary. So you’re blending those two styles to be able to express the type of work or service that you offer, if that makes sense.

– And if you didn’t catch this the key here is always about the consistency.

– Absolutely.

– And so the style guide, I always say you don’t want to be “Sesame Street”, remember “One of these things is not like the others.”

– Yes and if it’s not the same, you make it very different. That is kind of general design rule.

– Right, oh, wait, so we’ll come back to that for a second. I did this at Wedding MBA one year where I actually did live reviews of people’s marketing stuff on stage. And I had a camera that I could show them what was on the table. And I said, let’s lay everything out, from your business card to your brochure, to your postcards, to your price list, to everything that a customer will see, do they all look like they belong to you? Yesterday, I had a DJ that is working on a new website. So a friend of mine, Brian Lawrence, is making a new website for him, and he’s got a new logo. So he had, I don’t know if he went to Fiverr or 99 Designs or he had a local designer do it. And he sent me on Facebook Messenger the different logos, which were very, very similar to one another. And I said to him, before I even said, I like it. I don’t like it or whatever. I said, “How and where are you using it?” Because I see if it’s going to be on a website on mobile, it’s not going to be the size it was on my Facebook Messenger on my 27-inch monitor. It’s going to be teeny tiny.

– And that’s a brilliant point because a great logo, a phenomenal logo should be able to be the size of a thumbnail or the size of a billboard. And you have to think about those things when you’re adding a drop shadow or a stroke around it or a weird color gradient that’s going through it’s not going to be practical when you shrink it down and it’s going to lose its impact or potentially you have a little graphic or an icon that really is hard to decipher when you’re looking at it real small, I would recommend not including that.

– Right and that was one of the things with his, being an entertainment company, one of the versions had a microphone in it and large, it was very cool. And then I shrunk it down, because I always do that. Like if you send me a business card proof to look at I will take a ruler out, put it on my screen and make it two by three and a half, two by three and a half . Because when it’s the size of a place mat, it looks great. What if it’s the size of a business card? So I couldn’t see the microphone. I said, “Don’t even bother.” I can’t see the microphone. As a matter of fact, it’s just muddying it up at this point. So you said something there about if it’s going to be different, it should be very different. What would be an instance that you would do that?

– So for instance, if you were going to do a header font that’s in the same “style” as your logo. So two serif fonts, side-by-side, it’s going to take away the impact of those fonts next to each other because they become competitive instead of complementary. So if you think about just if it’s not the same, exact same, you like, for instance, do you do the same fonts in your other family of fonts? The answer would be yes, if you want that same style or you’re going to make it very different so that it complements and kind of puts the logo on the forefront.

– Okay, so for instance if that is on your website. you might have your main heading, your header font, because you said you had your four fonts there. So those of you that are geeky, your H1’s and H2’s or whatever like that, then you might do the second font underneath that. And I know you mentioned serif, we’ll talk about that, let’s say one is a sans-serif, one is a serif, so that they really they’re completely different, they’re not just trying to be matchy-matchy.

– Yep.

– Right. Okay, so I want you to explain serif, sans-serif and then I’m going to throw you a curve ball for people with ‘humanist’.

– I know that’s a term you use a lot. Well, and I actually have a minor in typography so I’m kind of a font nerd. And I think I throw around words that are, X-height and kerning, and spacing a little too often. But with serifs, serifs are more traditional. And if you look at a font, it’s going to have little feet on it. So it’s going to have kind of its own little foundation. You can think of Times New Roman that would be a serif-style font. Sans-serif is just like it sounds, it is without feet . So any font that does not have little feet on it, that is straight lines, it tends to be more contemporary a little bit younger, more forward thinking. Then there’s also scripts, which we’ll kind of go into. So scripts can be both formal and both casual. So you can tell the difference between a formal font versus a casual font by if the bottom of the letters are on one line, or if they’re real bouncy. If they’re real bouncy, they’re going to be more casual. If they’re all across one line it’s going to be more formal. So if you prefer to be doing outdoor events that are open-air and wild flowers, and that’s your style, I’m going to recommend doing a more casual bouncier script, as opposed to something real formal, because it’s just going to send a little bit different message. Then there’s also-

– Hang on to scripts for a second, I’ve seen people making a big mistake with scripts which is they use script in all caps.

– Which is a no, no, no, no .

– Right, I want people to hear that because-

– Also want legibility and scripts are very challenging to find the right legibility. And when you’re trying to sell something and they’re not able to read it, you will have a missed opportunity on your hands.

– Right, so some of the legibility things that I see when I’m reviewing websites is the script font is very thin and you might use a color on that against a white background and on a phone, it’s even smaller, which means it’s thinner. And then it’s disappearing. You just can’t read it, so again-

– Can I let you in on a secret?

– Yes, please, please.

– One of my biggest pet peeves in the wedding industry is wedding professionals using script because they want to appear wedding. And I feel like that is the worst thing that you could possibly do, one, because that script may not represent you and two, just because, again, you add sparkles and glitters and swirls doesn’t make it formal. So for all of you listening, if you’re going to use script have intentionality about it and make sure that it’s incredibly legible and I would probably recommend it more as an accent font than anything else.

– Right and that, again, that’s a really important point there, if it’s something you want them to be able to see and read quickly, script is not your thing.

– Especially with the attention span being what it is with our couples, that’s important. And we have to remember that it takes 2.6 seconds to make a first impression when they land on our websites and if they can’t read it, you lost out on what it is that you’re actually offering.

– All right, so another problem I saw on a website I was reviewing the other day, was the overuse of all capital letters, even though they were in headings, some of them were in heading some of them weren’t. When should you be using all capitals and when not?

– I can’t give you an exact quantity of characters but you want to keep the character count very small. So five to six words max, because the brain has a hard time processing those letters. I think it’s beautiful as a one-word header, that’s great. But when you try to put it in a sentence, it makes it very challenging to read and absolutely never use it as body copy when you have a paragraph. That should be upper/lowercase traditional, I would prefer probably an aligned left but you could do centered if it is a small paragraph but make sure you’re not doing caps for your body copy.

– Okay, so we just covered a few important points there. And this is what I love about you because we get so much-

– I’m just water hosing

– No, no, no, no, no, no, it’s great. But there are things people might’ve missed within there that I want to highlight. So a few words, one word, a few words for heading very important. I see people putting a whole sentence in all caps. The reason it’s hard to read is every letter is exactly the same size. You have no ascenders or descenders, we call them, like if you look at a letter “q”, lowercase, it goes down. And then it goes up on a “d”. There’s this thing that sticks up, it’s called an ascender. But that makes it easier to read because we can tell the difference between the letters. So only a few letters, a few words, one word, two words, whatever, as a heading, otherwise you want to use the regular, what’s called “sentence case”, which is the first letter is capitalized, otherwise names and stuff like that. The left, the left, just go ahead, go.

– And I will say all lower case is also a negative because all lowercase, unless you have a very quirky brand or a very young brand, it comes across very academic. It’s very young and so I don’t recommend adding all lower case for that reason alone is just the essence of it feels a little less professional.

– And even if your brand, your name is in all lower case, it doesn’t mean everything on your website & marketing has to be in lower case .

– It could be cute on a logo. Not cute when trying to read it as a header.

– And when it’s also not cute is when you’re trying to show your URL or your email address if it’s multiple words using first letter capitals in each of them just makes it easier to read because I can see where they start. All right, so you said left justified, which is my preference as well. The three options that every one of us has, no four options everybody has when they go in are left justified, centered, right justified and fully justified. Okay, give us the 30-second version of what does that mean?

– I have a lot to say about that.

– I know you would that’s why I said 30 seconds.

– Left justified is going to be the most easiest to read, it’s also going to have a little bit of structure and allow the I to kind of jump through the paragraphs easily.

– Wait, what is it? So tell them what that means.

– Oh, it’s when all of the text on the left-hand side is aligned in one straight line. Center would be that the center of the paragraph is aligned, so you’re going to have jaggedy edges on the left and the right, depending on how it’s aligned. Right justified would be the opposite. The line is on the right hand side, which I do not recommend for big bodies of copy because it just looks a little silly. And then full justification would be that you have a left line and you have a right line. And in design school, they say never do that. Reason being, is when you are trying to read it, all you actually are seeing from that big square block is what we call rivers in typography. So you’ll start seeing white spaces that go through and it’s very distracting and it’s hard for the brain to want to read that paragraph. So when in doubt I recommend left . So it’s aligned all the way to the left side or it is centered. And that is for use of smaller paragraphs. It’s a nice anchor point. Let’s say, right when you land on the webpage and you want to put your tagline or your mission statement, a nice center paragraph is a beautiful way to start and kind of, if you can imagine, funnel them to the next step of, or next point in the website.

– And you can mix it just like you said, I can have the centered but you also said, and I want to make sure people listening heard this, small blocks of text and centered not big blocks and not everything done there. That you can mix those up those things-

– You can mix, but again, consistency. So don’t go back and forth too much but maybe most of your big bodies of copy is left and maybe your accents are centered, that’s fantastic. Don’t feel like you need to make it fancy and left, right, center, left, right, center, left, right, center Like we’re not doing a polka dance, keep it at on-point.

– Right, and again, that consistency, it avoids the visual dissonance. And what I mean, I tell people it’s visual noise. You don’t know why it looks uncomfortable but it looks uncomfortable. And that’s like right justified text is weird unless you’re writing in Hebrew or Arabic, because it’s like, why would you do that? Newspapers, I read “The New York Times”, “The Wall Street Journal”. They fully justify to give them those nice, neat columns.

– And it aesthetically looks pleasing in that way when you have so much content, but I do not recommend that for anyone’s website copy or promotional packets or client brochures, keep it left, keep it left justified.

– And we’re not talking about font sizes because different fonts are going to be different size even though the number is the same, 14-point is 14 point, but it’s not, why is that?

– Each X-height of each it gets technical but from a scientific level, the X-height and the shape of the letter can vary. And it all depends on the designer of what they feel. Let’s say 12 points is like, that’s considered the normal-size reading copy. Well, to you as the designer, you may consider a little bit larger is the ideal. To me a little bit smaller is the ideal. So depending on the designer who’s producing it, you’ll see that variance. But typically you want to stay no smaller than, I don’t even want to say it, 10, it would be small, small, small, typically 11 to 14 is a great body copy size.

– And that would be on a marketing piece that you’re reading.

– Marketing piece, website, exactly. It’s going make it very comfortable to read.

– And what I do with a lot of people is, where is your audience coming from? So we know that a lot of people listening, your audience is coming from The Knot coming from WeddingWire coming from Facebook, and I’ll just open their website and then I’ll open up The Knot, and I’ll open up WeddingWire and see is if it’s kind of the same. And I don’t mean copy of the font. But kind of the same size, that’s readable. But you also have to look at it on mobile. Because the website I was reviewing two days ago, on desktop their main headers, their H1’s were big. And then they had the smaller one underneath it. And then on mobile, they were both the same size. You have to look on mobile because probably 60% or 70% of their traffic is going to be mobile and this impact of bigger, smaller, wasn’t there, it wasn’t there. And that’s another whole technical, ask your geeks about that but just look at it on mobile and see there. So a couple of minutes left here. What are the most important things that you think people should look at? They’re going to review their own stuff now and hate us both, but they’re going to , what should they think about?

– Yeah, I want to bring it back to consistency. I want you to do a little audit on yourself. I want you to look at your website, I want you to look at your business card, I want you to look at your social media, I want you to look at your promo packets. If you’re a DJ, what is the vinyl on your computer? Do you look like the same business? That would be the very first thing. Wherever there are holes, I want you to fill in those holes. And then I want you to kind of go back to the brand component. I want you to understand how your ideal customers are speaking of you. What words are they using? What really resonates with them? And then I want you to do a pulse on, on my website kaleighwiese.com, which I’m sure will be in the show notes, I have a color theory guide. So it says, these words represent these colors. And I want you to just put a pulse because I was talking to a DJ last year, he’s been using red and black course of his entire career. And he is a joy-filled, like you talk to him, he’s smiling, he’s laughing. And people hire him because he has a great personality because he’s friendly. Well, yellow is a great color for joy and happiness. And so when we started looking at his colors, it was like, okay, red is not for you, buddy. So we switched him over to a yellow. Again, it was not a full rebrand. It was a small tweak and it resonated and resonated and resonated to his new inquiries because he stood out in a fresh way. So make sure you’re consistent, do a little pulse check on if what you’re putting out there really is the right thing. And then put together that brand guide book, put together one sheet that has your colors, your logo, your fonts. And I want that to just be an anchor point or a visual bible that you can be able to reference or if you’re having some printer or graphic designer or you’re using Canva, you have a document that has and can ensure that no matter where your name comes up, it’s going to look the same. And it goes a very long way and it’s free.

– And you’ve mentioned Canva a couple of times, I use it as well. C-A-N-V-A.com – canva.com I use the paid version, not the free version. I like the extra features.

– Yes and as a graphic designer, I have not used it because I have all of my Adobe tools, but more on the recent I’m like, okay, I got to know what my clients are using too. And it is phenomenal. And if you are using the paid version, so everyone, listen, you can take that one-sheeter, you can upload your logos. You can upload your color codes. You can upload those fonts that you’ve already selected. So everything you create in Canva looks consistent and on-point, and that is phenomenal. It’s saving you time, headache, stress and you’re literally producing things that look on brand, all the time.

– And that’s what I just did recently because I have my logo over my shoulder here. And there are four colors in there and they all have a hex number. I can’t remember them off the top of my head my orange alanberg.com logo is #ED8523, that’s my orange. I know that because my son is a graphic designer. So I know that. And interestingly, you said about the color change. When I started my business, when I left The Knot in 2011, we made the logo that’s like the Swiss army knife. And I thought of this idea one night, I was like, I’m kind of a Jack-of-all-trades. And I’m a DIY guy, but mine has a pen, a microphone and a wrench. And it’s I write, I speak, I fix things. But it was blue. And for first two years, I had this blue logo and a beautiful logo, my son made it. It’s great, people loved it. And I said, you know what? Blue is kind of calming. And my brand has a little more energy to it. When I’m speaking on stage and we changed it to orange, because I’ve always been attracted to orange and orange-

– But it has the energy you have, while the blue is a very trustworthy, professional color. So you have the credibility in the blue, but then I love that you punch in that orange and yellow for a little bit of pizzazz that you bring to the stage and to your clients.

– And that’s not even this logo that’s a different logo, but we’ve done three different versions of that Swiss army knife logo in the evolution, like you said, it doesn’t have to be a revolution. And it was because my graphic designer, my son, he’s like, it’s time to update your logo. I said, well, that’s on you buddy, so but I will tell you this, every time we update something, everything that we have goes in the recycling bin and we put everything out new. There is a cost to that but there’s a bigger cost to the inconsistency. – I agree And I have to do that again now because I added the podcast and it’s not on any of my materials. So I’m going to add the podcast onto that. So you mentioned this real quick-

– There’s a quote you can probably remember. It’s like confusion, “people will not purchase under confusion” . And when you are sending out a lot of different messages, you are doing yourself a disservice for not being as hireable because you look like you’re sending a mixed message.

– Right, and you want to look professional, invest in good graphic design. I always say this to people, if somebody hands you a business card, can you tell if they did it themselves or if they had somebody do it? And they always say, yes, I said so. And you don’t want to tell them that, it’s like, somebody shows you a picture of a baby. You never want to say, “Oh, the baby’s ugly.” But sometimes Kaleigh, it’s a little tough .

– Sometimes.

– Sometimes it’s a little tough.

– So we will put it in the show notes. But again, just say real quick, how can people find out more about you? Or how do you help? Let me say it this way. How do you help the folks that are listening, if they wanted professional help? How can you help them?

– Yeah absolutely, so I work with creative solo-preneurs and small businesses, a lot of them are in the wedding industry because I’ve had a stationery business since 2008. So I’m very familiar with how this industry operates, uniquely. My most popular service is the full-on branding audit. So I look at every touch point. We look at the colors, we look at the fonts to make sure that you’re using that visual language to communicate to your ideal customer. I am a graphic designer. So I do do logos and websites based on unique needs. I don’t take on everyone. But what I am the most passionate about is equipping and empowering small business owners to DIY some of these things. I know that many of my clients and my colleagues are incredibly competent to share their message with the world. And they can’t afford things like a Fortune 500 company, but they can think and operate like them. So to have the tools, to have the psychology knowledge to be able to utilize, how to use colors and fonts in a way that really resonates is a free thing that I really want to share with the small business owners of the world. So that is kind of my passion. So I have courses, I have a membership and I do routine, five-day challenges, which you were a guest on for my last one. And I really like putting small business owners to work so that they can see the possibilities of positioning their branding properly.

– Fantastic and when you update your branding, it’s like putting on new clothing. And you look in the mirror and you’re like, what was the guy, You look marvelous.

– And when you see it start working, it’s like just as good as you feel when you’re wearing a new outfit.

– Absolutely, absolutely. So Kaleigh, thank you so much for joining us today. If anybody has any questions, we’ll put your contact information and how to get ahold of you, if they’re interested in any of your services, in the show notes. And we could be talking about this forever, but we don’t have enough time for that-

– I hope you have me back. And I’m thrilled to have had this conversation of the difference between brand and branding, because it does exist.

– We will do this again, thanks.

– Awesome.

I’m Alan Berg. Thanks for listening. If you have any questions about this or if you’d like to suggest other topics for “The Wedding Business Solutions Podcast” please let me know. My email is Alan@WeddingBusinessSolutions.com. Look forward to seeing you on the next episode. Thanks.

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©2021 Wedding Business Solutions LLC & AlanBerg.com

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